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061 – Review of Make it British Live!

Review of Make it British Live!Inspiring talks about UK manufacturing took place over the two days of Make it British Live! 2019 at The Business Design Centre, London.

In this episode hear a round-up of what the important topics were, and what was discussed by the speakers, who included:

  • Hareesh Kallambella, senior product manager, Burberry
  • Kate Dawson, owner and director, The All in One Company
  • Knitwear designer Genevieve Sweeney
  • Julia Redman, head of buying, M&Co
  • Henrietta Adams, Henri London
  • Mark Randle, founder, Galaxius Systems
  • Professor Stephen Russell, director, Future Fashion Factory
  • Andy Ogden, director and general manager, English Fine Cottons
  • Nick Keyte, managing director, Gieves and Hawkes
  • Barbara Burton, executive creative founder, Behind Bras
  • Brant Richards and Ed Oxley, HebTroCo
  • Tom Glover, managing director, Peregrine Clothing
  • Diana Kakkar, founder and garment manufacturer, MAES London
  • Adam Robertson, managing director, Kalopsia Collective
    David Williams, managing director, Knit Design Centre & Stoll GB
  • Simon Middleton, brand advisor, Simon Middleton Company
  • Tori Murphy, designer and founder, Tori Murphy Ltd
  • Sarah Talland and Dave Holt, Potter Clarkson
  • Paul Alger, director of international affairs, UKFT

You can hear the full talks from some of these speakers in future podcast episodes – so make sure to subscribe if you don’t want to miss them! Subscribe on iTunes here.

If you enjoy this podcast and you want to help spread the word about making in the UK, I would be really grateful if you left me a review over on iTunes. Reviews help other people find my podcast and I read every single one. Just click here to review, select ‘Ratings and Reviews’ and ‘Write a Review’ and let me know what your favourite part of the podcast is. Thank you!

Transcript of this Episode

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Lucy Siegle: Well, good morning everybody. Welcome to Make it British. Let’s have some excited response. Yes! A smattering of applause. You won’t be clapping later. Okay, so we’ve got an action packed day for you here.

Kate Hills: You’re listening to the Make it British podcast. I’m Kate Hills and I’m on a one woman mission to save UK manufacturing. I invite you to join me every Tuesday and Friday when I’ll be sharing the stories behind some of the best British made brands and UK manufacturers and offering you advice on making in the UK. Let’s crack on with the show.

Kate Hills: Hello and welcome to episode 61 of the Make it British podcast. Well, the event is finally over, Make it British Live happened last week. If you happen to attend, you’re gonna love this episode and if you didn’t attend you’ll probably love it even more because I’m going to be filling you in on everything that happened over the two days last week of the 29th and 30th of May, Make it British Live trade show. It was our sixth edition of the event and we moved to a new venue this year at the business design centre. We had some fantastic feedback from those that attended both the exhibitors and the visitors to the show saying that they loved the new location. It’s light, it’s airy, it’s centrally located and it showed off our exhibitors and their products to their absolute best. Now lots of you have been asking whether we recorded the talks at the show and actually we did. We recorded them both as videos and also as audio.

Kate Hills: Now, I didn’t want to confirm this until I got the audio files back because you never know what can go wrong but actually I think may all sound okay. There’s quite a bit of background noise in the back, obviously, because it was a busy trade show and the talks were right in the middle of the show as you came in. We made them all completely free to attend this year we had Lucy Siegle, as you heard at the beginning of this episode, introducing the show and chairing the whole proceedings on the first day.

Kate Hills: Lucy Siegle is a journalist and a broadcaster. She works for the BBC quite a lot. You see her on the tellybox. And we were delighted to have her help us host the event on day one. And she certainly got some great discussions going. So what I’ll do on today’s episode is I will give you a summary of those talks with a little bit of an excerpt from each one just to whet your appetite and then over the coming weeks on the podcast, each talk will have its own episode in its full glory so you can hear all of the talks. Because you might have come to the event and being busy walking around, meeting all of the exhibitors there and not had a chance to sit through all of them. Or maybe didn’t, unfortunately, manage to get to the show and more news about that at the end of this episode when I’ll be revealing what’s happening next.

Kate Hills: I’ll also be doing part two of this review next Friday on the podcast when I’ll be talking to some of the exhibitors as I walk around the trade show and give you the lowdown of what happened on the trade show floor. But today let’s concentrate on the talks that happened at the event over the two days and fill you in on what all the discussion was all about. So we kicked off day one with an introduction from Lucy Siegle. Here you go…

Lucy Siegle: My name by the way is Lucy Siegle and I have written about fashion probably about the last 15 or 16 years. Actually, we just met again after 16 years so that helps me to put a date on it. Thank you. Always helpful. I’m very much a fan of the sustainable fashion movement and my whole foray into fashion really began from my perspective as a sort of eco agony aunt for the planet as I was then. So lots of people used to send me questions, mainly about their recycling and arguments with their partner about what needed to be put in the recycling bin and what didn’t. I’m basically like a sort of marriage guidance counsellor for recycling, essentially. But I noticed about 16 or 17 years ago I got more and more questions about the fashion industry and I found that when I started to look into the environmental footprints of the average garments, I was quite astounded and I think since that point we have done a lot of work and we have started to understand fashion life cycles of different materials in a very different context.

Lucy Siegle: And I think, at the moment, it is a particularly galvanising and yet very peculiar time. I think I can say that with some certainty. I don’t know how many times we’re going to mention the B word today, but obviously there is a background to all of this. Political background to all of this and a lot of upheaval. And I think what’s really impressed me about this sector is the way that it hasn’t really stopped progress. It hasn’t really put the brakes on our discussions and our very disruptive mindset. Make it British is a very important parts of the sector calendar, I think.

Kate Hills: Now, I’m not sure how many times the B word was actually mentioned. I don’t think it was many. Probably not until we got to the talk by the HebTroCo boys at the end of the day, which you’ll hear in a minute, but the first talk of the day was from Kate Dawson at the All in One company, who’d actually, she, Kate had been a speaker at our first ever Make it British Live event, which actually called Meet the Manufacturer of back then in 2014. and she came back for the show this year to tell her story and how it had evolved and all about how she set up the All in One company.

Kate Dawson: After setting up the business in the October, 2008 by the Easter, he had actually told me he was actually going to close the factory because he wasn’t getting enough orders from his other customers. It was either close down the All in One company or launch my own factory. Which is not what I wanted to do at all, but it’s what I had to do to keep the business going. I found a little unit in Ashington. I found three members of staff, two machinists and one cutter. And with their skills and my drive, we were able to start the All in One company in 2009 and have our own premises. It’s the most amazing feeling in the world. When you’ve got control, when you can actually deliver to your customers what they want.

Kate Hills: Next up was Barbara Burton, who is the founder of a business called Behind Bras and Barbara told us a really emotional story about how she had ended up going to prison in her 50s and had used that as an opportunity to springboard a business which she set up as a social enterprise to help other women offenders start working in the fashion industry.

Barbara Burton: In 2008 I was arrested and four years later, I stand before a judge. In those four years, I thought to myself, they’re never going to send me to prison. My God, first time offence. Wasn’t my fault. We all say that. Wasn’t my fault. And I had age on my side. I was a grandmother. Why would they send me to prison? What would be the point of sending me to prison? But they did. In that gap, in that four year gap, I said to myself, “Well, nobody’s going to employ me. What am I going to do?” So what I did, I wrote a business plan.

Kate Hills: After hearing Barbara’s story for which there was many questions from the audience, we then went onto a panel discussion where we talked all about fast fashion compared to slow fashion and which the UK does best. Now, this was a perfect panel for Lucy Siegle to chair because she really is the queen of slow and sustainable fashion. I was actually ready for her to really grill our panellists, but I think they got away, they stood their ground really, really well.

Kate Hills: And this panel had actually been quite a challenge to put together because, unfortunately, and as happens when you run events, two out of three of our advertised panellists, Phoebe English and Jenny Holloway, unfortunately had to drop out at the 11th hour. But, in events where there is a will, there is a way. And we luckily found two, no, we found three lovely ladies to step in in that place. This ended up being an all women panel and the panel in the afternoon ended up being an all men panel and some people did make a comment about that. It wasn’t intentional. We just found the right people to be there and as it turned out it happened that the slow fashioned discussion did end up being all women. So we kicked off the panel discussion with lovely Genevieve Sweeney who literally found out she was going to be on this panel about 30 minutes beforehand. She is a knitwear designer. You might have heard her on this podcast before and here is Genevieve saying what slow fashion means to her.

Genevieve Sweeney: It really kind of signifies a craftsmanship, something that’s made beautifully with care, with kind of, yeah, thinking about low wastage and something of, high quality which lasts a lifetime.

Kate Hills: In contrast, we had Julia Redmond on the same panel who is a bind director at M and Co and we had Judy on the panel to represent fast fashion or fast response and that is one of the reasons many people make in the UK so that they can get a fast response. What did Julia have to say about this?

Julia Redman: And I think in terms of the fast versus slow fashion element of this conversation, I very much sit in the middle. I believe there’s room for both. It’s just about the way we manage both of those things through our industry and the way we deal with it in an ethical and sustainable manner.

Kate Hills: Also joining us on that panel and stepping in for Jenny Holloway was Caroline Ash. Caroline actually runs Jenny’s factory, Fashion Enter in north London. She is the factory manager there. She was perfect to be able to talk about how their factory operates in a fast fashion world. And this is Caroline’s comment about what the difference is between fast fashion and fast response and how the two often get mixed up.

Caroline Ash: Fast fashion doesn’t have to be bad quality. Fast fashion just means that you can buy smaller quantities and then you can repeat into it so you’re not wasting, you’re not marking down the price of your garments and not going into landfill. We make little and often.

Kate Hills: And then our other lovely lady on this panel was the delightful Henrietta Adams from Henri London. Now for those of you who don’t know the brand, Henri London, it’s really worth checking out. She does beautiful made in London organic clothing. So she also had lots to say about fast fashion versus slow fashion and what that meant to her brand.

Henrietta Adams: We sell direct to consumer online and through our sharp and it’s a very small range of timeless products. And my commitment is sustainable production and quite specifically using organic cotton and making here in London.

Kate Hills: Fast forward to the afternoon and we had our second panel of the day, which is where we discussed craftsmanship and technology and how they could exist together. One of the people on our panel was Professor Stephen Russell who is part of the future fashion factory and he works at Leeds University. And here’s what he had to say on the subject.

Stephen: And it’s about converging the newest advanced tech style technology and digital technology in the fashion industry to add value. It’s for value creation purposes and it’s really dealing with the need to reduce the time it takes to develop products. Reducing our lead times and also reducing waste in a commercially practical way. That means shortening the time it takes us develop new products. So those product development cycles can be very long in some cases, particularly in the high value luxury end of things, which is what we do very well in the UK and the technology that we’re developing is capable of reducing the time it takes for those products to be developed. But also what we’re also doing is harnessing UK manufacture and design talent to do that. Hugely reducing geographic supply chains to make product that can’t be made anywhere else, effectively, well

Kate Hills: Also on that panel was Nick Keyte, the MD of Gieves and Hawkes on Savile row. Now where does a Savile row tailor fit into a panel discussion about technology? You might be thinking. Well, this is what Nick had to say about technology and how they’re integrating it into their business.

Nick Keyte: Even though we are a bespoke tailors. A heritage brand, we are working very, very hard to be as relevant as possible to the current consumers because if we don’t prove our relevance we die and you’ll be surprised or maybe not surprised to hear that we are actually very open to using technology wherever possible because fundamentally our number one priority as a retailer is to give our customers the best possible service. And what I’d say is even though we’ve got bespoke cutters and bespoke tailors, in the basement at number one Savile Road today, working away, wherever possible around them and actually even in the customer interaction itself, if we can utilise the latest technology to improve everything from the service and experience to the lead time, then we have to do that to remain relevant.

Kate Hills: Also on that panel was Andy Ogden from English Fine Cottons, who you may have heard on this podcast a few weeks ago, he had plenty to say on making in the UK and craftsmanship as well.

Andy Ogden: When you look at the CMT operations of the UK, they are generally under-invested. When it comes to automation and speeding the response up and speeding the capability up, whether that’s in the digital process of taking design directly from the CAD system into a cutting regime or whether it’s just about automating certain simplistic responses, folding colours, making plackets, making cuffs that it can be done in an automated process, quite a lot of the businesses at the present moment are still doing them mechanically on a one by one basis. They call a craftsmanship. It isn’t. That’s making it bespoke product. Craftsmanship comes in quality and value.

Kate Hills: Last but by no means least on that panel was Mark Randle from Galaxius who has invented a piece of technology which is used by factories to help make labour more efficient and here is what he had to say when the topic of minimum wage came into the discussion.

Mark Randle: From my point of view, obviously what we talked about earlier, we’ve been looking at the labour. There is legislation about minimum wage. That’s all legal. It all exists but we know that that’s not complied with. Not across the, certainly across the garment market. We know that that happens. I think government know that happens. The solution that we have, if we put it in a factory, they have to comply. It looks at minimum wage, it says this is what should be paid. Now, should we legislate? The legislation already exist. The law of minimum wage, et cetera, exists already and it’s been floundered at the moment. What we will do with the retailers buy-in is that we will just flag that up and all the retailers have to say is, “Your garments aren’t made legitimate.” We’ve got a a means of detecting where it was made, who made it, how long it took, and what the actual cost was. If that factory can’t prove that, then the retailer just have to say, “No, you’re not playing fair.”

Kate Hills: On the Wednesday afternoon after the panel discussion, we were honoured to have Hareesh Callum Bella from Burberry, no more, no less, join us on stage to give a fascinating talk all about how Burberry is making changes at its mill and its manufacturing in the UK. Now the Burberry talk is the only one that I wasn’t allowed to record in full and I completely understand and I respected the fact that it’s really quite unusual for an event the size of ours to be allowed to have anyone from Burberry to speak. I was delighted that Hareesh was able to say yes, but it did mean we weren’t able to record the whole talk. But here’s just a little snippet which gives you a flavour of what Hareesh was talking about.

Hareesh Kallambella: We firmly believe that real innovation for us is the development of our people and ways of working to ensure that we can maximise the potential of our equipment and leverage technology.

Kate Hills: And as you heard there, Hareesh is very much implementing all of the latest technology into the Burberry mill in Castleford which we’re really excited about here at Make it British. It’s so great to have a big brand like Burberry still championing products made in the UK. So thank you for Hareesh for his talk.

Kate Hills: And then finally on day one at the show we are joined by Ed Oxley and Brant Richards who did a talk all about how they made a million pounds in Brexit Britain. Actually, that’s Ed and Brant from HebTroCo now I had so much great feedback about Ed and Brent’s talk. You have to picture the fact they were actually holding beer whilst they were doing this talk. Rather than your standard conference fair, it was much more like you’re at a comedy event and they were doing a stand up comedy act. They were brilliant. They talked about how they set up the HebTroCo brand, which is a trouser brand made in England and if you don’t know them then you’re going to really love, this is a little snippet from their talk. You get the flavour of this and what it was all about and how they were on stage. They were brilliant. It was a great act because it really was just like they’re own act to close the show on day one.

Brant Richards: When we started making stuff locally, it was cool. Making stuff in Britain was cool. It was all great. We loved all that and Facebook was going really, really well and then all of a sudden that thing happened. I’m going to put my hand up here and say, I voted remain. Edward, what did you vote?

Ed Oxley: I voted remain.

Brant Richards: You voted remain.

Ed Oxley: I wouldn’t now.

Brant Richards: And I remember very soon after that …

Ed Oxley: Hello, HebTroCo.

Brant Richards: Very soon after that we were interviewed at Best of Britannia. You didn’t really know what was going on. Did you? Little bit comedic.

Ed Oxley: Well, and we’d gone because we wanted to try and sell stuff. We wanted to try and get some press. That’s why we’re here now. We want to try and get noticed so that people tell our stories so we can sell some more stuff because we are a business. We’re trying to make a profit. That’s the important thing. And we went to this show and they were like, “Sky Live news thing want to interview you.” So like, “Yeah, definitely right, let’s do it. Do they want to talk about the making of the clothes and this and that?” “No. They want to talk about Brexit.”

Brant Richards: We try and be quite positive, but when the currencies done that on the day that you’ve put your first order in to a German mole skin mill, because nobody in the UK actually makes moleskin anymore and all your cloth costs have gone up 15%, that’s a little bit irritating. It was a little bit difficult, but we’re cool guys. It’s fine.

Ed Oxley: So when the Sky News, they went, “How does Brexit effect your business?” I said, “Oh, Brexit. Is that a breakfast cereal? We’re just from the north of England and we’re cracking on with it.”

Brant Richards: Because at that point you really hope, you really hope that all it is, it’s about a currency thing because all our stuff is really run through Facebook, through these channels and funnels like Cambridge Analytica do and stuff like that. And you’re trying to understand how you’re going to work your marketing out going forward.

Kate Hills: If you want to hear Brent and Ed’s talk in full, then make sure you’re subscribed to this podcast because it will be going out as its very own episode and it’s worth waiting for very, very soon. That was the end of day one. Then lots of you came back for more on day two when we started the day with the wonderful Tom Glover from Peregrine Clothing, who gave us the family history of his clothing brand and talked about why he’d recently invested in a knitwear factory in Manchester.

Tom Glover: So why I bought the factory … to be perfectly honest, I didn’t have much choice at the time. As you’re aware, many of the factories in UK making the products at the same time. I wanted to save jobs. If I hadn’t stepped in a lot of people would have lost their jobs and I had staff in tears asking for my help. I also wanted to control my manufacturing. I’ve had a number of orders to fulfil and without the factory I would have lost a lot of customers and orders. Only the factory I was enabled, I was able to secure the best price going forward. I continue to make the quality product which we could retail at a competitive price.

Kate Hills: After Tom’s talk, I chaired a panel with three of our exhibitors. We had David Williams from Stoll GB, the knitwear machine company who actually have a manufacturing centre in Leicester where they make small quantities of knitwear for designers. We also had Diana Kakkar, who you might’ve heard on Tuesday’s podcast this week talking about high-end garment manufacturing in London and also Adam Robinson who was from Kalopsia who has also been on this podcast in recent weeks. And David, Diana and Adam joined us, join me for this panel, which was entitled Small Batch Manufacturing, but ended up being a discussion as much about getting products made in the UK, but also setting up your own factory. Here’s a little excerpt from that panel discussion with those three.

Kate Hills: Did you think sometimes there’s unrealistic expectations from anyone making in the UK thinking, “Oh, if it’s made in the UK it must be able to get it to … yesterday?”

Adam Robinson: Massively. I think there is with customer stuff in general that … this idea of making on demand. We can always press a button and stuff magically appears. It’s not like that. There’s still a lot of planning and effort that needs to go into it. I think it always seems to be make on demand and custom stuff almost is like it’s seen as being easier when in fact it’s the most difficult way you can do business.

Kate Hills: David, can you do one of a kind?

David Williams: With parameters. The parent company that build the machines are now working towards what we call this 4.0. and customised product is one of the biggest growth areas. And of course when you’re making garments you get less returns because it’s made especially for you. Now with the likes of unmade who have spoken to now there are ways of specking a garment and making certain elements of that garment bespoke. I think now if you look on Ralph Lauren’s website, they’ve got, now, a sweater where you can influence areas of the sweater.

David Williams: The base block is the same. We might change stripe, we might put a knit, I think this was quite a preppy sweater and you can manipulate this on the website. And this technology, I think, is coming very fast. It’s important that you design within the technology to allow these things to happen. But in theory, everybody sitting here could have a sweater made with their name on it and the knitting factory could receive the programme and one by one they would knit a different sweater.

Adam Robinson: I think that’s a good point about within parameters is probably the best phrase I’ve ever heard to use around that because what we’re working with Strathclyde at the moment on a virtual reality software for ordering as well, which should mean from a manufacturing point of view, our clients could see in real space what they were doing. The same sort of idea. Pick zip colours and things like that. So those elements that are already changeable could be changed but you wouldn’t be able to do a completely new product each time. You can change the lining colours and the zips and stuff like that or add a clip on or something like that. Definitely parameters is they key.

Kate Hills: Diana, you can probably do much more one, in fact, a lot of your customers probably do ask just the one design.

Diana Kakkar: We are B2B, which means, that means we work with businesses. Yes, they can ask for a one off as their proto and we can turn that around. It does come at a cost because we don’t work from a template as such because they would have either provided us with a pattern or some kind of work. In theory, everything that they are making is a one of a kind.

Kate Hills: After that, we were in for a treat as we had Simon Middleton gracing the stage and talking to everyone about the truth about branding and what that really means.

Simon Middleton: Sometimes when I speak at business to business events, people say, “Well, that might be like that in the world of the consumer, mate.” They say. “But it’s not how it happens in the world of business to business. Here, we need data and facts.” It’s not true. Business to business is done through storytelling and relationships and anyone who’s ever tried to sell anything to anybody else, whether it’s selling to a consumer or indeed selling to a fellow business person will know that that’s true. You buy from people.

Kate Hills: After lunch, I brought textile designer Tori Murphy onstage and we had a fireside style chat. When I interviewed Tori and I asked her all about how her business had come about and she had offered some fantastic advice about how she’s managed to get her brand, her relatively recently launched brand into a lot of high end retailers all over the world. She has some great tips about what you can do if you’re starting a business and you want to get attention of those buyers. So that episode when I play her full interview, it will be well worth listening to. Now here’s a little snippet from my talk with Tori.

Tori Murphy: I explained that I was a textile designer, that I was wanting to launch a collection of 100% woven and made in England products and I didn’t have very much money. I was quite upfront about that and the majority of mills, to be honest, said no or, “Yes we can help you, but there’s 500 metres minimum and oh by the way, there’s four grand setup charge.” I couldn’t do it until I found one factory that said, “Do you know what? Okay, let’s give it a go and we’ll weave you 12 metres of fabric and we’ll give you a leg up. We’ll give you a chance.”

Kate Hills: Now, if you are a designer like Tory or anyone who is manufacturing a brand and wants to understand about intellectual property and patents, Potter Clarkson, who are one of our exhibitors are certainly the people to go to. They are a legal firm specialising in IP for the fashion and textile industry. And they did an amazing talk, which did include the B word, but it was all about where you stand with IP and patents when it comes to Brexit. Here is Dave Holt from Potter Clarkson explaining all about patents.

Dave Holt: A patent’s slightly different to some other rights in that it is purely territorial. So you’ve got to be very selective as to where your business is going to go. You’re going to have to work out where you want to protect it. If you’re going to sell in the US, go to the US. If you’re gonna go to Japan, worth filing in Japan. But there’s no point spending money filing a patent somewhere where you’re just not going to sell your product. If you’re not going to sell in Africa, if you’re not going to sell in Asia, it’s not worth spending the money because you will end up with a right that just doesn’t get used and you’ve spent money over nothing. So you’ve got to be quite careful that you’re picking your right consumer markets. You got to think about where you’re going to sell it, think about how you’re going to sell it and who you want to reach and you want to try and tailor your applications on that basis.

Kate Hills: And to close the show on day two, we had the brilliant Paul Alger from the UK Fashion and Textile Association with a talk entitled Made Here and Sold Everywhere. Now, Paul really is the expert when it comes to selling overseas, particularly at overseas trade shows where the UK often take their members and brands and designers to trade shows overseas. And here’s Paul explaining the benefits of doing just that.

Paul Alger: A lot of UK retailers won’t buy from British brands until they see them globally. So if I had a pound for every time somebody was at a trade show in Paris and said, “You wouldn’t believe that I’ve been trying to get hold of insert name with the buyer, but I’ve just seen them at this trade show in Paris. They’ve ignored me in London, but because I’m in Paris or Florence or Berlin, they’re interested. They think I’ve arrived. They think I have something interesting to say.” So it works.

Kate Hills: So that gives you a really good summary of what took place over the two days at the talks at Make it British Live. Next week I’m going to be covering some feedback and some chats with some of our exhibitors and all the talks you’ve heard snippets from today, apart from the Burberry one, will be played info on future podcasts of size. So make sure you subscribe to this podcast and you’ll be notified when they go out. Now, I said I’d give you a little announcement at the end of this episode about what we’re doing with next year’s show. Well, I know I said on this podcast a few weeks ago that we weren’t going to be doing the big version of the event, but we had such amazing feedback and everyone said you can’t not do the trade show. So we’ve managed to twist the arm of the business design centre to give us a new date for 2020 and that’s going to be the 17th and the 18th of March.

Kate Hills: A little bit earlier than our May dates of this year. It’s going to be bigger, it’s going to be better and it’s going to include lots of different product areas and not just fashion and textiles because we’ve gradually been granted … losing my words. We’ve gradually been gravitating towards different areas and the feedback about that has been great. We’re going to be including more of that at the show going forward. If you want to find out more about that, make sure you get on our mailing list because we will be telling everyone on the mailing list very soon once we start, once we get more details together about the show. But in the meantime, thank you for listening to this podcast. I know it’s been a really long one. I hope the sound quality has been okay because you have to bear in mind that a lot of these talks were recorded in a big echoey venue. There is quite a lot of background noise but I’m hoping that gives you some of the atmosphere of what it was like at the show. Until next time, bye.

Kate Hills: Thank you for listening to the Make it British podcast. I make an episode every Tuesday and Friday plus there’s also bonus episodes occasionally. So don’t forget to subscribe in your favourite podcast app so that you get notified every time a new episode goes live. And if you enjoyed the show I would really love it if you left me just a little review on iTunes. The more reviews this podcast receives, the more people will discover it and the more we can spread the word about Making in the UK. Thanks once again for listening to the make it British podcast. Bye bye.

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